Wednesday, October 16, 2013

Former SCI client discusses the truth about Surrogacy in India

Tuesday, October 8, 2013


Further update, MAY 2013 STATS - Why I left SCI Healthcare, Dr Shivani, Delhi India

So while we're talking about transparency, Karen Lynagh over at Drippy Delhi Dreamers or some such thing is a client manager with SCI, has been for well over a year. One of the last communications I had with her was invoicing Vishal for her CM work to ensure she was paid.  Seems my stats were good enough to present at Surrogacy Australia conference in 2012, but now they are simply "Megan's stats" that have no accuracy. I left in May, of course I have stats for Mar/April/and most for May. I did stay in touch with clients. She's also posting on Fertility friends UK forum as Kare72 posing as a happy IP clearly to shill for clients. I don't have a business partner, I am a sole operator, odd she knows so much about my business structure. If you're going to post defamatory comments, people will take legal action against you, not me, I don't have the money. If you're going to claim business partnerships and drag two agents into a mess that does not involve them because Shivani happens to be paranoid,  perhaps you should not believe all she tells you. And s for minimising your role at SCI, I did your invoices Karen. I have your referral list, well over 20 clients on it. It's fine to have clients and be paid for it, if you do some work. It's not okay to abuse others who have always been transparent, even to their own detriment. If you're going to make public claims about me staling clients, you better have seen every single email I sent to SCI clients when I left, all stating that I had left, how did their cycle go, if they need anything not sure if I could help, but would always be there. I built relationship with clients, of course I was going to say goodbye. For the record, how many clients do I have from SCI? One. How many clients do I have? More than enough. There are none so blind so those who will not see.

I never felt I would ever have to write this blog post. I know a lot of you love her, I did too, but no more. I decided to leave comments open, I have had many interesting comments, to this blog and many emails to me personally. Thanks to those who have supported me in making this very hard decision to go public, it was your encouragement that allowed me to do this. To the trolls, (20% of the comments and no emails direct) if you want to send personal attacks, 1. didn't read your comment in full, first negative word I binned it, and 2. if you really want to be part of the solution and not the problem, you have my email address.

I am going to make a post to answer some of the questions as to my motivation as to why i wrote this post, that is for another post. Please keep in mind, I don't need to justify myself, but I will, and only because you asked.




I worked with SCI Healthcare from 2009, til early 2013. When I started working with this doctor, she was brilliant.  My babies Toby and Mishali were born through her medical care, and forever I will be happy about this. Grateful? Now? No.To Rani and Mithu who carried my babies? Yes, To Shivani? No, Why no?  Because repeated requests to be in touch with Rani and Mithu, I have been denied.

In March 2013 I left SCI Healthcare because of numerous reports of over-charging. I left because of the incredibly high rate of surrogate hospitalisations, which gouged clients for money, but for which were never receipted to the client. I left because I did not believe SCI was actually doing FET for clients who were gay. single de facto, and I left because  they were quoting pregnancy stats they I personally collated over  years, that they relied upon to bring clients in, that were no longer true. I left because they were telling clients their surogates lived in accommodation, when they didn't, I left because they charged clients for services never given, and I left because when anyone quesstioned an account, or a medivsl report, or dared to ask about the progress of their pregnancy, Shivani personally got involved and was abusive to clients, accused clients of not caring about their surrogates, and then I had to deal with the emotions of the shattered IPs.

SCI Healthcare and Dr Shivani Sachdev Gour, her husband Dr Vishal Dutt Gour, and their primary client manager,  Margarida Maia, South Australia, are now all resting on their laurels. They are feeding you bullshit. It's great to see the babies being born, and promoting the positive, but where are the new pregnancy announcements? When will the baby births run out? Very soon.




Here is the truth about SCI Healthcare's actual stats now, not the old ones I collated from 2009, which I was very proud of. To be updated while I count the actual cycle numbers.



MARCH 2013 - Total cycles: 46

Total fresh egg collections with egg donor:  24
Positive - 5
Negative - 16
Chemical - 3

Total FET from egg donor cycle - 18
Positive - 5
Negative - 8
Chemical - 5

Total fresh egg collection from self-cycle: 3
Positive -
Negative - 3
Chemical

Total FET from self-cycle: 1
Positive
Negative - 1
Chemical




APRIL, 2013 - 26 cycles

Total fresh egg collections with egg donor:  6
Positive - 1
Negative –3
Chemical –2

Total FET from egg donor cycle: 16
Positive – 2
Negative –14
Chemical

Total fresh egg collection from self-cycle: 3
Positive - 1
Negative - 2
Chemical

Total FET from self-cycle: 1
Positive
Negative - 1
Chemical




MAY 2013
Total : 38

Total fresh egg collections with egg donor:  12
Positive - 4
Negative - 8
Chemical – 0
Miscarriage - 2

Total FET from egg donor cycle - 14
Positive - 4
Negative - 10
Chemical - 1

Total fresh egg collection from self-cycle: 4
Positive - 2
Negative - 2
Chemical


Results not known: 8







58 comments:

I&D said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
I&D said...
Good on you Meg. This is the right choice. SCI are renowned around the world for over charging. We know this first hand.
Ian and David
Anonymous said...
scumbags ripped us off too, 19 days in NICU for a baby that didn't need to be there, and I couldn't get him to transfer to another hospital. Guess we all just have to bow down to the Goddess and be happy we have a baby.
andy said...
Anonymous said...
What trash Meg!
Amani (Meg) said...
yep. complete trash
Bob said...
No one can deny anyone else feedback, but to date all the feedback I have seen has been negative.]
Anonymous said...
Hi, I agree with your post. Last year I looked for this doctor to do surrogacy using my own eggs. I made all the tests and after that She told me that I didn´t have enough eggs. So, I found another indian doctor (excelente doctor!), I did the treatment with her and I got 11 good embryos. My surrogate got pregnant at first try and now, my baby will be born soon. Regards.
Anonymous said...
Shame on them - just expose them as much as possible so vulnerable IPs do not fall into this scam trap like what most of us have fallen into with no results to show at all even after paying large amounts of dollars towards the SCI account. Indian police should jail those involved & close this place down.
Michael's surrogacy Journey said...
Meg I understand your pain and you have been there for me sooo much. I may have been a lucky one I was never overcharged and was in and out of India in 9 days. I strongly believe that It was that way because I was always on there ass. But Meg even if I would have paid $40k its far less then the $133K in the USA. I to would love to write a letter to my Surrogate Munnami and send her nice things from the USA, but I have been denied that too. The only thing I care about is I met wonderful people along the way like you and so many IPS, and in the end I have the most important thing in my life my Isabella. Meg you have to do what MAKES YOU HAPPY. I am glad that you stood up for what you feel, so many people don't. I love you Meg always will.
Anonymous said...
Many of us know this to be true. Several of us live in a total state of fear thought our ongoing pregnancies w SCI - you can't ask a question without having you head ripped off and accusing them of wrong doing, the surro hosptilazations are off the charts, there is no actual proof of these hospitalizations provided - only demands for more money. I am anonymous because we are still pregnant and live in fear every single day that something is going to go wrong. FEAR we should not have this of our clinic or our doctor. We will never ever do this again and we will happily go public once this clinic is out of our lives. We have spoken to many other IPs with the same feelings. We feel that we were totally misled, and get bills for something new. Instead of joy, we are scared and financially exposed. We will hopefully have our family, but this has not been the experience we had hoped. Thank you for your honesty, we spoke to you at the start and wondered what had happened. Now we know. Did the US person helping them leave for this reason too? We also spoke with her and then contact stopped and she hasn't said why. Good for you moving on, this was brave of you.
Anonymous said...
Thanks Meg for saying this so everyone in the process of deciding can take your experience into serious consideration given all of your experience and expertise on this matter. We have a 3.5 year old born in Mumbai with another clinic, Rotunda, and went basically with opinions of others who had gone before us which had been very positive. Then the management (doctors) changed, and when we went for baby pick-up, it was chaotic. Never recommended them in spite of our first-time success (as I believe it was due to the prior doctor/management team). I also have to add that we were not OVER charged but only charged a little over half of what was supposedly the supposed total, given the contractual fee documents. It was chaotic. Previously, we also tried the USA for invitro with donor eggs for me before considering surrogacy in India, and we got bills for months from this clinic (500 USD here, 300USD there, etc) for stuff, until I called them to complain and it suddenly stopped. We had taken my previous IVF-Fertility reports in Spanish which they said they understood and accepted, yet they did them all over again! Yep, we had signed a small print that they could do the tests they deemed necessary and that we would pay for them. This was IVF-New Jersey USA. So, with this, I want to say, "caveat empoter". Buyer-beware. Money runs through one's fingers quickly with infertility, so one has to be VERY careful and do their due-dilegence. Opinions like yours do help people make choices as clinics evolve for better or worse.
Kim Hendrix, Complete Surrogacy Solutions said...
Holy crap Megan, aren't you afraid that you'll be taken out by the knees? Don't think I'd be hanging in Delhi anytime soon. Seriously, brave of you to put this out here, honesty is the path forward. It really is.

Kim
Rhy and Drew said...
This must have been a very difficult post to write. I appreciate your choice to be honest especially knowing that there very well may be ugliness directed at you because of it. You're in my thoughts.
Anonymous said...
Meg, thank you on behalf of all IPs, potential and otherwise. This was very brave of you to write, and we are all in your debt, not just for this post, but all your advice in the past.
Anonymous said...
i sent emails weeks ago and have no answers from margarida, only sent crazy emails about you, how unprofessional, i found a new clinic
Choco Mayan said...
Thanks Meg! All IPs would thx you for that. Me, personally, thx you to prove that I am not crazy and my suspicions are now proven to be true!
Amani (Meg) said...
Ah but CM, remember you are me, or me posting as you, or some such rot. Did dr K comment on how much we look alike?
Anonymous said...
You are a person with outstanding morals, honesty and integrity. Good on you for exposing this clinic and for providing factual information and saying it how it is.

I have twins that were born via a surrogate in the US and reading surrogacy blogs has always been an interest of mine.

I was always suspicious when reading the blogs about the continuous supposed hospitalisation of the surrogates, and the exorbitant NICU fees.

Unfortunately these clinics and doctors thrive on greed, and they are getting greedier and greedier and finding loopholes and ways to extract more money from clients holding their dreams and babies 'hostage' and to ransom.

Shame on you Shivani and these clinics for cashing in on the vulnerability of society.

Good on you Meg for disabling hopefully some future potential clients and encouraging them to look elsewhere.
Amani (Meg) said...
Thanks, of course any positive comment I receive, I MUST have written myself. :)
Amani (Meg) said...
HEY IDIOT, SEE STATS ABOVE, REAL STATS, REAL FACTS, REAL CLIENTS. Success real were great until recently, so I left ,others didn't knowing full well what was going on.
Crystal said...
Today is actually a very sad day for those who are thinking about surrogacy in India, or are in the dreaded two week wait. With surrogacy in flux, in India and women's groups trying with all their power to shut surrogacy down. I cannot believe that Dr. Shivani would not try to address the concerns that you have outlined. Why would anyone let it go this far? I am sure today that thousands read your blog. Those of us in the business and those not in the business received lots of inquires and personal stories from intended parents who used that clinic who felt that issues went unaddressed or felt cheated. It is obvious that this is not new. For the sake of surrogacy in India, it would behoove doctors in the business to really have a frank conversation with those who they work with to get a realistic temperature on what is out in blog land. Failure to do so, could mean your livelihood.
Anonymous said...
Ugh. This is so heartbreaking. I love India so much and spent so much time there, but why all this corruption? How can a so-called medical professional be no better than a sleazy tout working the streets of Pahar Ganj?

I suppose, fortunately, GOI blocked me from forking over everything I have to this clinic back in January.
crystal said...
Those stats are horrific. When IP's ask me stats on docs in India, I generally tell them that I cannot supply that and I refuse to lie. I can only give them what I know of my own clients. In India inflating of stats has gone on a long time. Clearly if a doctor in India is seeing more than 200 new clients monthly, which many do...why are not thousands of baby being born from one clinic? It doesn't make sense.
Amani (Meg) said...
there are more to c. ome, I don't know what went wrong, they don't know what went wrong, whatever it was just wasn't addressed, and to their credit they did a lot of FETs without charge, whether those FETs were actually donor or not, I have no idea, anyone can doctor a report. It makes no sense I leave a place I helped to establish, a job I loved, and was paid for, when my husband was out of work, put myself and my family in the financial doghouse, if Im such a lying money grubber as Montreal Canada claims. For the record, once I realised the problem was not going to go away, I refused payment for anyone who wasn't pregnant, haven't been paid since June anyway, so I had a good 4 months to blog all this, I just chose yesterday due to 2 cases in one week where babies dating completely wrong for their supposed birth weights and size were brought to my attention. Enough is enough. that goes for every clinic, in every country.
Anonymous said...
3 surrogate hospitalizations and no invoices provided, just little emails asking for more money every couple of weeks. It was abject Hell the entire time. Not to mention the extra 1,000 inr each time extra for "exchange fluctuations" nickle and dime for every single thing. Insane. Just because someone can help create a baby doesn't make him/her a God who can do anything to anyone without some sort of fallout. Ego, greed, and lack of moral code. Great thing in a doctor. Thanks for saying what the rest of us are too afraid to say. I hate that these kinds of doctors are going to be the ruination of something that could be so great for so many. Sad state of affairs all the way around.
Anonymous said...
The hospital SCI used in our journey was absolutely disgusting and completely unacceptable.
Anonymous said...
Very interesting post. I have had similar conversations with fellow IPs with SCI and the odd 'lack of transparency regarding these hospital stays. I guess I can call myself lucky for just having a 5-day stay close to the end of the pregnancy after a completely uneventful pregnancy. I don't know what to think exactly. I chalked it up to doing business in a different culture and was able to keep moving forward with the process in the hope of having two babies which is exactly what happened. I applaud your honesty and realized you could have done this post months before. All I can say is what goes around comes around.
Anonymous said...
Thanks Meg for coming out with what has truly been going on behind the scenes at SCI. I guess we are one of the several victims who have paid thousands for 8 BFN results & paid large amounts for positive results we so want but not achieved as yet. Each time we have questioned this we have been met with sperm analysis issue or Margarida's story of failed 6 attempts which should not be the issue. I am sick of paying for something which has given us so much heartache. Yeh for sure we are in West but seriously our money here doesn't grow on trees for Indian docs to fleece us off as some milk cow machine which has plenty to give. We too are going through great financial challenges at the moment & are not millionaires just becoz we live in the West.
This so sad.
Megan said...
To the commenters asking why I promoted SCi for four years and now leave - I am sure I have made it perfectly clear that things were brilliant for the majority of that time. Success rates - real stats - collected by me as best I could totalling over 600 cycles and representing approx 80% of SCI clients - were as promoted in information literature and on the website. Things changed and when I saw the results dive and stay low for several months, I was out of there. I cannot sleep at night seeing the devastation of IPs with negative results, knowing they were not the only ones to get the bad news. Something was going wrong and it wasn't fixed, and I don't now what was wrong nor how to fix it. That doesn't mean I had to support it. So I didn't. Now I can sleep at night, and to anyone who questions my ethics and morals, ask yourself what you would have done in the same position as me. For the record, this is not about money, it is about giving the truth so people who are in the same position I was once in, childless and longing for a baby, a choice.
Rhy and Drew said...
Anyone who is asking you that question needs to remember that people have a right to change their minds. As I gain more experience, as new information emerges and as a situation evolves it changes my opinion. Their was a time when I recommended PH. I did that based on the information I had at the time and the experience I had at the time. The fact that I can't support them now is nothing more than me gaining information and experience. Maya Angelou said it best, "When you know better you do better.”
Anonymous said...
We have been with SCI for over 2 years now, we have 2 donors flown from Europe for cycles, and many frozen tries. We have 8 negative results. is it meant to be this hard? The donors are good, so I was told, and my doctor says my sperm is normal. Still no baby. They did give me some free frozen embryo cycles, but still nothing. I don't know what to do, do i try another clinic? Would it be any better if i did, or would I start again and o trough more of the same. I am not blaming this doctor, she has always been very nice to me. NL
Amani (Meg) said...
Smiles, you made your own life hell, a tip to get you through life. Pay your bills!
Anonymous said...
This is a shock. I hope everything will be okay, we have our twins, I hope others can too, but I am really shocked.
Anonymous said...
This is very difficult to hear. You were a big part of why we chose SCI. We were fortunate to get a positive on our first self cycle. Now with about 3 months to go, our anxiety levels are even higher. We trusted you and your advice and took it. Now you're telling us that it was all wrong. What to Believe?
Anonymous said...
You said: "I left because they were telling clients their surogates lived in accommodation, when they didn't"
OMG, Where they really live?
Anonymous said...
OMG! Our suspicions is right! I wonder if our surrogates got our gift especially money! Thank you Meg xxx
Anonymous said...
Hi Meg
Sad to read this.
We are very grateful for all of your assistance to us during our cycles.
Best wishes
Chris
Anonymous said...
Hi Meg, thanks for being so honest. We almost chose SCI last year (we have briefly been in touch with you through e-mails), but we ultimately chose to go with Dr Meenakshi in Mumbai. I am now glad we did. I just wanted to tell people that not everybody is bad and corrupt. Dr Meenakshi is not very known (as she mostly serve Indian clients) but she served us very well, and, instead of charging more than what we had been told, she charged less. She was also a woman with a lot of heart, which we were pleasantly surprised about. Otherwise, the corruption level we have experienced with the Indian government was very high. A nightmare in fact. Be prepared to keep extra cash in your pocket to "make things work" with them.
Amani (Meg) said...
I am confident gifts to surrogates get to them, thee is no reason for staff or anyone at SCi to not give gifts.

I am certainly not saying everyone is corrupt and bad, not at all, there are some good options for surrogacy in India. There are just some things to be aware of when choosing a clinic, one being surrogate hospitalisation, the other being success rates. Everyone sould ask for proof of success rates, the number of cycles, and ask how the statistics are collected, and how often.

Re: surrogate accommodation - I was told they had 180 apartments for surrogates, another agent told "do you really think I have 180 apartments for surrogates?" It's okay for a surrogate to not be in accommodation provided by the clinic, but clients should be aware their surrogate may not be, and if they really want this - and not everyone does - then tell the clinic you want this.
New Year Dreaming said...
Disappointed to read this Meg. How does this serve any positive purpose but to frighten intended IP's? I understand you feel the need to vent but there are two sides to every story. We had mostly a smooth pregnancy for our three and whilst I was initially pissed annoyed by some extra costs it was evident how these came about....For all intended IP's do your research and do it well. I researched many clinics across India, Thailand and the USA and found that SCI was the best for us......I maintain this opinion. I will always be grateful to Dr S and the SCI angels for making our dream come true.
Amani (Meg) said...
IPs should be frightened, they should also be told the truth. i believe you had your children at a time when success rates were high. You had success on the first try. This rarely happens these days. i ask you, if you were starting the process now and thought you had over 70% chance of success, but then discovered you actually had less than 25% chance of success, even with egg donor, s=would you have signed up? This is not about venting, if I wanted to vent, I would have done that when I left 5 months ago.
Anonymous said...
We've had four tries, Indian egg donor with two surrogates, both negative and two FETs with 2 surrogates, both negative. Is it reasonable to expect a pregnancy with this many tries? Is this a lot of tries? They are quoting 90% of clients pregnant with 3 tries, I guess we in the "unlucky" 10%. We know it doesn't always work, but we don't know what to do now.
Anonymous said...
Your following statement is NOT accurate:

"May 2013
FET cycles, all negative
Fresh egg donor cycles, 15% positive ongoing pregancy"

We had our first FET in May. 4 embryos were thawed, 2 survived, 2 were implanted, and we are far along with twins now.
Amani (Meg) said...
Were you on my client list? If not, then you would not have been included in my stats, my stats are from people who I have dealt with me or Margarida, approx 80% of clients. Good luck to you, I am happy you are pregnant. I base stats on date of beta result, so maybe your had your beta in June.
Anonymous said...
Our beta result was in May. I was in communication with Margarida and you.
Amani (Meg) said...
Then you are welcome to email me, my email address is on this blog. I have not yet collated actual results for May, and I don't have them all, I have 38 cycles that I was involved with along with Margarida. I have 8/38 results not given to me by SCI. Do you really want me to spend the one day of the week I have off from work and being with my family to go and collate May 2013 for you? Why don't you ask SCI what the May stats were.
Anonymous said...
It didn't even cross my mind for you to "spend a day" to "go and collate" May's results. Strange you even think that. I am simply pointing out that your statement about no successful May FETs is wrong.
Amani (Meg) said...
and I am not willing to go into a debate with you on this lovely Sunday afternoon. As I said, I do not have all the results from May 2013 given that SCI sent emails to all and sundry telling them I was out to poach clients from them and I lost contact with a lot of people at that stage. So if you would like to know whether you are included in the stats i have, then send me an email, tell me your name and I will verify for you.
Anonymous said...
There is no debate. We had a positive May FET, and you say they were "all negative." For this reason, I already know that we are not included in your stats. Enjoy your day!
Anonymous said...
There is no debate. You said all May FETs were negative, and we had a positive. Clearly we were not a part of your statistics, and you should clarify that you do not have all results. It is misleading otherwise.
Amani (Meg) said...
Mel, it's easy to duck and cover when you haven't been hurt, overcharged, abused. You had a great cycle, pregnant first time, 2 surrogates, 3 babies. It's not like that for everyone. This is not about you and your love for what you have, it's about how things have changed.

SCI had a lot of success, and now they don't. End of story, I am not denying previous success and I have made that perfectly clear in my post.

This is about those that come after us.

If you think I have dirty play, then tell me why, emil me tell me why you thought I was just the bees knees, and why you think I now suck. I guess you don't have to stomach for that, so up to you. My lines of communication are always open.

BTW, I still work with India, just not SCI.


Amani (Meg) said...
Dear Anon, I will take off time to addressed you concerns. I will collate the May stats, I will post them. I will do this just for you. Screw me spending time with my children, God, how dare I put my family first? As Shivani told me for years, I don't have any time to be with Neil, why should you?
Anonymous said...
Please don't finally bother to collate the May stats for me. Besides being contradictory (How can you collate them if you don't have all of the results? And why wouldn't you have collated them sooner instead of saying "all negative"?), you have a horrid tone, so I will not ever return to you and this topic.
Amani (Meg) said...
Well, just for you I did,SInce you are so knowledgeable about stats from SCI, why did I not collate them sooner? Because I made the post on the hop, while I had the emotional ability to do so, while I was feeling brave enough to take on these arsewipes. So thanks for your contribution. Ciao bella
Tigerlilycat said...
I think the key thing here is that THINGS CAN CHANGE, so research research research to see if a particular clinic can still offer what those prior to you experienced. India changes very very quickly and clinics we were in touch with five years ago are just about unheard of now. This doesn't mean they're not doing great work still - it's highlighting how many new players there are. And more players offers more choice, which is both good and bad. All clinics that deal with Western clients need to be able to meet expectations of those clients. If you can't, please don't offer your services to foreigners. I'm a veteran of the Indian surrogacy scene and have seen a lot!!

To Megan - I agree. If you had an axe to grind you would have done so before now. Something very obviously changed for you to write this post, whether that be things not adding up for you (as information was withheld) or IPs sharing more (as you're no longer with SCI). Having known you for a long time now, I know you want others to experience what you have - and nothing more. It's not about money. It's about the pure joy we feel meeting our baby / babies and watching them grow after years and years of negotiating slippery slopes to get there. It would be great to see the SCI birth stats in early 2014 prove Meg wrong, and I'm sure Meg would agree with this!! Will also be interesting to see how Dr Patel's stats change as a result of the purpose built one-stop-shop being constructed in Anand. Super clever to build apartments for baby pickup into your new clinic and hospital.

Lisa
Anonymous said...
Well, I am not with SCI, but looking at the stats excluding the bad macroeconomic environment of India, they are around 50% less than the usual volume(around 200+ babies annually), which is alarming. April's stat is super weak. If I got a positive this year, I would be worry and pray that I don't get a huge bill for extra hospitalisation.
Basically, we can plug the cash flow stream, and since most of the payment is made at week 28-32. The months of Dec and Jan will be tough months unless there is an extreme rebound in month of June, July, which I doubt as I haven't read a lot of BFP news lately. When a biz is getting really tough months, it can cut cost or try to find ways to increase revenue. Common sense!
Amani (Meg) said...
Myleen, you are as nasty as ever, I am not interested in what goes on in that that twisted little brain of yours, comments are disabled go spread your evil elsewhere. You have zero credibility.

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